We continue our interview of the life-long bible reader and
scholar, who witnessed close to 100 years of America's history
and travels through religious changes.
Pastor: Let's get back to your comments about continuing education. You
placed a high value in education, although you didn't attend college. How
difficult was self-learning without computers and on line teaching?
Old Man of the Sea: For the most part, it wasn't too bad. If you really wanted
to learn, you just applied yourself. There were no time limits, so you could take
as long as it took. Except for math, there was rarely a need for help. I was
blessed there, because I had some well educated friends who were glad to
help. It did kinda exhaust me after I had figured out a routine of study, so I
took a learning vacation.
Pastor: A learning vacation? Sounds interesting. How about letting us in
on this sidestep?
Old Man of the Sea: Well, when I was in the National Guard, I only rubbed
shoulders with other Pennsylvanians, whose culture was my culture. When
I visited relatives in the big cities, it was a different world. I figured it would be
equally interesting to see more of this big country and some of the people
from the West. Remember, there were more states to join the Union, and the
West was still a wild place and the setting of active western stories. It seems
like we've always had 50 states, but as late as 1906, we only had 45 states.
Since then, we've added Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona, Alaska and
Hawaii.
Pastor: That's right. Hawaii was the last entry to the Union, and that was in
1959. The addition of Texas in 1845 actually led the way into the last movement
to the West. We tend to think as the setting for Gunsmoke to be the Old West,
but that's not accurate. Other states that followed Texas included California,
Oregon, Nevada, Colorado, both Dakotas, Montana, Washington, Idaho and
Wyoming. I bet your travel West at that time was an eye-opener.
Old Man of the Sea: I see you have a pretty good grasp of History. Most people
today don't consider it to be important. Big mistake. Yes, it was a BIG eye-opener.
After you left Chicago and northern Illinois, everything changed. What impressed
me the most was how big the sky suddenly got. It gave me this impression of
being totally dominant of everything. It was kinda a preview of heaven, I guess.
I traveled by train, and the sights were never to be forgotten. I went across the
northern Plains, the Rockies, and on to the Pacific Ocean. It was the trip of a
lifetime without leaving the country.
Pastor: What else impressed you besides the sky? How about the people?
Old Man of the Sea: There were so many things, including the people. But a
really big thing was the way they lived. There was so much nothing going across
the northern Great Plains. Just wide open space for miles and miles. The buffalo,
if any were left, had to be south of the area I went through. The first real culture
shock happened on the first night, when I got off the train to get a hotel room for
the night. I was already in the "real west", where men on the street wore six guns
and the streets and buildings closely resembled scenes from westerns. I got my
hotel room, and found the walls between rooms started a couple of feet from the
floor, leaving that space to be shared with neighbors. Now I understood why I
had been warned to sleep with my shoes on, and to keep my money as a
companion to my feet, socks and shoes at night. I didn't encounter any problems,
largely I believe because God and His companions of six guns kept the peace.
Pastor: So you didn't see any shoot-outs?
Old Man of the Sea: Nope. Everything was peaceful on the whole trip, and I found
the people cordial, if not somewhat amused to have an Easterner (tenderfoot) in
their midst. The Rockies were inspiring, like the sky. You look at the mountains
and sky, and marvel at God's handiwork. I think about Darwin and his ridiculous
claim of evolution, and the later Big Bang theory.
Pastor: When you're finished talking about your trip, I want to question you
about the Scopes trial concerning evolution. Go ahead, with more about the
trip.
Old Man of the Sea: Well, I had been impressed by the Big Sky and the
Rockies, the highest you can go as a human, and the Rockies, that take you
up, but still below heaven. Now I was impressed by that big body of water called
the Pacific Ocean. This is as low as we get, unless maybe Hell is lower, and I
certainly don't want to go there, even for a visit. I was surprised to see vast
wheat fields in western Washington. There were quite a number of Easterners
in the far West--Oregon and Washington. These people were not much different
than back home. It was very educational, and I sure learned a lot about
Geography.
Pastor: I envy you that trip. Now I want to ask you about something that still
affects Christians today--evolution and the Scopes "monkey" trial. I suppose you
followed that pretty closely?
Old Man of the Sea: I think most people did. It was probably the forerunner of
today's media frenzy about spectacular events. I think this mixed in with the big
revival movement and prohibition. Even people without religious connections
were interested in the trial. Isn't it strange that this subject is still alive after that
trial way back in 1925?
Pastor: It has become even more confusing since the Big Bang theory was
theorized, and we were presented the expansion of the universe to consider.
Most people today, even Christians, don't know what transpired at that trial.
Old Man of the Sea: That's right. Evolution is a subject most people have a
belief or opinion on, but for Christians, the belief should be in the bible scripture
about creation. It seems many of the people in Tennessee believed in creation
and passed a law forbidding the teaching of evolution in public schools. Those
opposing creation wanted to challenge this law in court. Teachers, whether they
believed in evolution or not, didn't want to file a lawsuit, probably because they
thought they'd lose their jobs. But a substitute teacher named John Scopes
agreed to file a lawsuit. This is where the American Civil Liberties Union began
what I call a disservice to America. They offered to support Scopes in the trial
and hired William Jennings Bryan, a famous lawyer of the day, to lead the
prosecution.
Pastor: Your statement that the ACLU began it's disservice to America seems
to suggest you believe it is still not serving Americans as it should. Is that true, and,
if so, why do you make that conclusion?
Old Man of the Sea: To begin, their defense of Scopes, who admitted breaking
the law, was the defense of a man that refuted one of the basic principles of
Christianity--divine creation. Evolution is in direct conflict with the first two chapters
of Genesis. This is the foundation of Christianity. If you don't believe in these two
chapters, all that follows in scripture through Revelation is questionable. That means
you must believe the entire Word of God was not inspired. It also means you have
serious doubts about prophecy, miracles and the virgin birth, resurrection, the
Trinity, and salvation. Either you believe it all or you are riding in a motorless car.
Pastor: That's quite a statement. Didn't you have some doubts while you were
pursuing your studies? Quite a few academics question all that.
Old Man of the Sea: Any doubts I might of had were erased very early on in my
studies. I have some good friends who have some doubts and have not committed
to Christ as Savior. My conclusion is that extended study by them has led them to
believe that man will eventually be able to solve everything and come up with vast
improvements to God's creations. These are very well learned people whose
problem is they refuse to submit to any authority. They don't realize they are already
submitting to the authority of many men and women who pass laws and enforce
regulations. Intelligence doesn't necessarily equal common sense.
Pastor: I see you've become somewhat of a philosopher.
Old Man of the Sea: Well, it doesn't take much except common sense to
understand the ACLU. They have taken a stand against Christianity at every turn.
If they keep it up, Christ and Christian values will disappear unless Christians wake up.
Pastor: Please continue with the Scopes trial. I really don't understand exactly
what the final decision was.
Old Man of the Sea: I think you might say it was a non-decision. There is a real
interesting thing that happened shortly after the trial ended that Christians might
consider an act of God. Some interesting numbers are, almost 200,000 words a
day were telegraphed from Dayton, Ohio, site of the trial to newspapers both in
the United States and Europe. Tens of millions of readers followed it daily. This
was the equivalent of helicopters sending video of the O.J. Simpson ride after
the murders in California. The lawyers on both sides were either well known or
quite famous. Clarence Darrow was lead lawyer for the defense, and both he and
Bryan had outstanding assistant lawyers. It's kinda hard to decide who won and
what they won. Darrow outsmarted Bryan, who had prepared a brilliant oral
argument. Five days after the trial ended, Bryan died. Maybe an act of God?
Pastor: That's all very interesting, but let's go back to where you said it was a
non decision? Didn't the trial provide a guilty or not guilty verdict?
Old Man of the Sea: Yes, it did. But the way of legal matters hasn't changed
since those days. The way the case was presented in court turned out to be a
matter controlled by the rulings of a judge. His rulings prevented the testing of
the civil liberty issues of the constitutionality of the law or any testimony about
the validity of the doctrine of evolution. Darrow put Bryan on the stand and was
brilliant in his cross examination questions of his personal beliefs about the
fundamental attitude about science and the bible. Bryan never got to present
his oral statements. The case simply became a question of whether or not
Scopes had taught the doctrine of evolution in a public school. Since he had
already admitted to the court he had, he was found guilty. He was fined $100,
which was later returned. The State Supreme Court later cleared Scopes of the
conviction. Except for the great publicity, it wasn't really about any claim or
theory. Scopes simply broke a state law by teaching a forbidden subject.
Pastor: So the trial was not about the belief in evolution or creation. It was
just about teaching a subject forbidden by law? My history failed me.
Old Man of the Sea: That's right. The subject probably wouldn't have created
all that attention if it hadn't been for the emphasis on prohibiting alcohol and the
great revival preaching by Evangelicals like Billy Sunday, which all took place in
that time span.
Pastor: If I remember correctly, the Big Bang theory was proposed in 1927, the
year Babe Ruth hit 60 homers. I consider Ruth's feat much better than the Big
Bang nonsense. The only big bang closing out the 20s was the big bang on
Wall Street, when the Stock Market fell and the Great Depression began. This
is something like what we're experiencing now. I suppose you remember details
of that since you lived through the entire period?
Old Man of the Sea: I remember it like yesterday. After my travel out West,
I began saving some money with an eye towards starting or buying a business.
I wanted to work for myself instead of some corporation.
(We'll continue this interview in the next message.)
Rev. Walbear
